I don't know if I have the gumption to endure a 3-year-old and a 5-year-old going through treat withdrawals.

On a related note: My sister-in-law hipped us to a good idea for getting rid of the Halloween treats: if the kids leave their bags of candy out when the go to bed Halloween night, Wendy the Witch comes in the middle of the night to take the candy and leave them a toy in its place.

Because, you know, what we really need around here are more toys.

If I can master the Cookie Platter when I have kids, it will be my ultimate success as a mother.

i think, "can you be quiet? i'm eating a cookie" should be on t-shirts and mugs everywhere.

I truly admire your consistency and firmness. It will really come in handy with Coco. And Chuck. But more so with Coco. You are a really good parent. No matter what everyone in that little town in Utah says.

okay, cesar- er, heather? Can you take this act on the road? Say, to Phoenix sometime after October 31st?

Heather, I emailed the following poem to you after your post-choice entry, with the intention of cheering you up. I expect you get thousands of emails, and may have missed it, so I enclose the poem here:

WHAT THE DEUCE? NO, WHO THE DOOCE!
By Don Beesley

Who has learned not to turn her demons loose?
That would be Dooce.

Who has mellowed enough to offer a truce?
Would that be Dooce?

Who is irreverent and can give a goose?
We know that’s Dooce.

Serious as Zeus?
Silly as Seuss?
Can clean a moose?
NO! No politics!
Oh, what’s the use?

You the one, Dooce.
Go kick some caboose.

I long to be allowed to master the cookie platter. So often here, we are not allowed to bring in homemade treats. It totally sucks. I remember bringing in homemade cupcakes, etc., for my birthday to grade school classes.

I am going to use your trick of taking them out of the oven a little early. If I had cookies out before dinner--I would be hardpressed to get my two-and-a-half year old to eat anything for dinner at all.

You must make this stuff up. The things Leta says are so funny.

Dooce, you are a terrific storyteller. I LOL every time I read your site.

Haha. You're an awesome mom. :o)

And now I need to stop at the store on the way home so I can make a batch of cookies... My office will thank you tomorrow.

Heather, good for you! Leta is very much like my 8 year old, and I wish I had had the balls to cut treats out at such a young age. It just slowly snowballed on us and it got to the point that the only thing she would eat was ramen noodles, toast, sugared cereal, doughnuts and hot flaming Cheetos.

Finally I put my foot down, and she's actually done really well. The teacher said her focus at school is better since cutting out artificial coloring. Since everything with artificial coloring is crap, her dietary choices are fairly limited. I even heard her tell her Girl Scouts leader that she couldn't have artificial coloring the other day when snacks were discussed.

Wow - seriously... what your conversation used to sound like with Leta at the dinner table is what mine sounds like every night times THREE - all three girls begging me to find out how many bites they have to eat to get dessert. If only I had the willpower to do the same thing you are doing. Oh, and Leta? FREAKING FUNNY. Can she come to my house and entertain us all for a while?

I love your kid; she is too hilarious. My niece, Mimi, is Leta's age and she cuts right to the chase, too: "No, Eemo (Auntie in Korean) Woo, let's talk about me." I had to share your site with my sister (Mimi's mom)...I have to say, since she started reading your site, her own family blog has gotten MUCH better.

Oh, and thanks for the link to David Sedaris in your previous post. I love his stuff. Holidays on Ice is one of my all time favorites.

Our children would adore each other.

I worked at a preschool for awhile and I just need to inform you that the teachers are eating most of your cookies.

No no.
They are.

I also like the whining and moaning followed by the "I don't NEED it anyhow"s and "I don't even LIKE those".

I love being a mean mom.... ;)

I also get the same "can you stop talking now" when my daughter is trying to do something she considers to be important.

Yay kids!

Ah, the joys!

Revel in the effortlessness now for as long as you can... She'll return to her 'old self' in about another 10 years because at that point, teenagers know we don't have the energy to battle anymore... bribery becomes paramount for survival at that point! :)

Has someone started making magnets with "Leta-isms" on them to sell on Etsy?? If not it's a crying shame! :)

I totally agree with you on every single thing you said.

At one point I got so tired of harassing my daughter about remembering to brush her teeth that I instituted the "No sugar for 2 days for each time you forget to brush your teeth" rule. And my kid was so totally honest that she once brought home school party cookies to eat the next day. I was so shocked I almost cried.

Thank GOD that no one has taken away my treats...

You are a more of a maverick of a mom than some other women other there. And I mean it in a good way. Seriously.

You've got a great kid. And she's got some great parents.

OMG...the wit of her mother...this is what you would have been like as a child, if not for the Mormon teachings holding you at bay. You aren't gonna pay for your raising, you are just gonna PAY.

I love her. Her intelligence. Her logic.

JUST WAIT until she is a teenager - you think the negotiating is bad now? HAHAHA!

P.S. I'll trade you a snarky teenaged girl. Right now. Please? B/c treat negotiation sounds like FUN. Compared to the negotiations going on at my house.

May I please have a cookie now?

Kudos on the No-Treatos! Grossly enough, my 5 year old would take a t-bone steak over cookies any day of the week. So, maybe treats aren't so bad afterall!

Some of us like the nightly bite-taking negotiation at dinner every. single. night.

I should probably try taking away treats. But I have three kids. I think I may go deaf from the whining.

Heather, you are both wise and brave. We have **exactly** the same negotiations over dinner in our house, and we hate it. so far we've considered "treats on special occasions only," but we haven't committed to it. You're giving me hope.

Treats for school made at home?! Wow! I always imagined I would get to do that and when my son started school there was a 'rule' of only store bought/sealed packages of goodies. ack.

Oh yes, the years of negotiations.... I learned to tune it out and every time my son would say one more I would make it one less and then if he countered I said - okay, none it is AND stuck to it. I should have gone your brave route. However, I have survived this fun activity for 11 years now and am convinced he will be some sort of lawyer or negotiator at some point in his life.

Gotta love the grandparents - UGH...my kiddo always would come home full of junk.

Damn that was funny! You must also be involving her in the Slow Food Movement...she seems to be learning to savor her food, mindful eating. Well done. I totally agree with getting away from negotiations with children. They're persistent little buggers!

Great story, as always. I am putting this comment here because you closed it for the David Sedaris post. I too was at David Sedaris, but I find it interesting that you seem surprised that the audience would laugh and respond to him as we did. (Yes, I realize that you are most likely being sarcastic, but hear me out) Is it not possible that 98% of the people there KNOW who he is and what he talks about, so why would I be surprised by what he has to say? That is like me going to George Carlin in Salt Lake, which I did, and then being annoyed that he said Fuck. I mean seriously. Not every person in Utah is Mormon (and even if they were, not all Mormons follow their religion to the letter) I think what I am trying to say here is that, I find it ignorant on your part to assume that MOST of the audience would freak out by his readings or what he has to say.

So freaking funny! I am glad you decided to put your foot down about the bargaining. It is a horrible game kids play and parents fall prey to. Love your stories!

Happy Halloween : )

My son turned down a slice of homemade Ooey-Gooey butter cake yesterday in favor of grapes. I feel I need to bribe him to eat treats so he isn't beaten up his first day of kindergarten for requesting broccoli to go with his milk carton.

Leta reminds me way too much of my little sister.

But she eats way to many sweets and not enough vegetables.

This is too funny. I love how Leta totally thinks she's on the ball with everything and tries to talk you into things with her innocent little suggestions. Want a cookie? Have dinner immediately then. Brilliant.

Leta is freakishly intelligent and hilarious. My sister's youngest child out of 4, and the only girl, God bless my sister, reminds me so much of Leta (they're just a couple months apart...wonder if there was something in the air that year). Couple of pissants they are.

And GOOD FOR YOU! Would it be weird to say I'm proud of you? For taking away treats? I grew up being allowed to eat whatever the hell I wanted, and if that meant sugar in place of real food, that was fine. So I'm totally on the "treats are exactly that--TREATS" wagon. It makes them that much more special when the little mongrels don't get them on a regular basis. My 2 y/o daughter helps me make cookies sometimes, and oh my goodness, you'd think the kid had died and gone to Cookie Heaven with Jesus. I've stopped letting it piss me off when her grandparents give her candy. I realize that is a battle I will never, ever win. It's a grandmommy thing. Darn grandmommies and their disregard for our Nazi Mom Rules.

You may have cookies, but *I* have cupcakes. TAKE THAT!

Seriously though, I've really got to stop the how many more bites bargaining as well. You have, dare I say, been inspirational.

I've gotta hand it to ya'... I've said the same thing to my kids (no treats), and I usually cave after a few weeks. And by "few weeks" I mean 20 minutes.

Pfff. Your mother's a hack. My grandfather TOOK LIMA BEANS AWAY FROM MY TWO YEAR OLD, which she was happily eating, and gave her OREOS. He refused to wait two minutes until she finished her beans.

Funny, my boyfriend has the same reaction as Leta...

You should tell people when you're places. We all could've had a KC Dooce-fest.

That doesn't sound right, but the basic principle is sound.

Anyway, congrats on the treats. More for me...

When someone finds the child rearing manual, I am sure we will be sleeping better at night. In the meantime, being a parent is like a wild experiment. Being real and consistent are important in parenting. Can't wait until Leta can't live without makeup....or boys!

As for Grandparents.....there are no rules for them. The only rule is that they need to be available.

Great post!

Smart Mama!!! I believe kids should eat when hungry and only until full- not eat to get something else. I babysit, and treats or snacks are for nighttime or mid afternoon, and are normally very fruitfilled!! Fruit salads, yogurts, are the choices he makes over cookies. Which is good, because they only buy Smarties once a month for him. :)
I think you're doing a great job with Leta.

My first thoughts were "You mean you guys can have Halloween parties there?" They are all but banned here in California. And the homemade treat thing too - i've heard that some schools aren't letting homemade treats in either. store bought only, which, um ew!

So my question is, if you don't negotiate "how many bites" with a treat afterwards, does that mean that the negotiations just stopped? My DD is 6 and suprisingly is not a big sweets person but we still have the discussion of how many more bites does she have to take until she can be done. Do you just let Leta decide when to be done or does she just now finish a meal without question? Does she still say "can I be done if I eat ## more bites?" even though there isn't a treat for later?
I'm glad it went so well! Not nearly as hard as taking the pacifier away, huh!

I had cookies in the oven when I read this, so I jumped up to take them out early. Thanks! Much better.

For a second there, I read "we were going to eat the cookies for dinner", and I thought, what is this? Reverse psychology?...

My roomate once said "The best part of being an adult is that I can actually have dessert before my dinner if I want to." But yeah, limiting treats is probably a good idea... I still feel badly if I have dessert before dinner.

My 2 year old nephew's first word was "cookie," and his first full spoken sentence was, "I want a cookie." This remains his favorite thing to say. Pity the day his mother decides to remove treats from his diet!

Heather--just had to come back to say: #58 (Amy) is hilarious! You know, in an ignorant way. File this under: Readers who don't "get it".

You're right on with limiting treats - and an inspiration! Whether kids or adults, goodies always taste better when they're just that - TREATS - not every day occurrences.

I can't believe the things that come out of the mouths of babes. If I didn't know she was your daughter, I'd swear you're making up all the stuff you say she says.

Leta is a riot! Good for you for raising such a spirited daughter.

And yeah, I agree that you should print up bookmarkers, stickers, tshirts, or whatever else you can think of with all the stuff she says... Starting with, but not limited to: OH MY GOD THE HELL!!!!!

Another great story. I'm glad you have found a way that works for your family.

We actually went in the opposite direction. I stopped treating sweets as anything special at all. I offer choices freely of whatever we have available, "treats" included. My kids eat what satisfies them. What nourishes them. And yes, what fulfills a craving for sweet. But like you said, they pay attention to their body's cues rather than figuring out how to bargain for the dessert. They know they can have their dessert whenever they want and it's lost all of its power over them.

Just another way to approach it. Thought you might find it interesting.

PS Leta is way cool.

You've learned a great truth of parenting: It's not a treat if you get it all the time.

I have a 5 year old daughter and every story you tell of Leta makes me think of mine. She's just as obstinate and so sarcastic at times that I wonder what she'll be like in 8 or so years. In fact the other day my in-laws had both of my children and were bringing them home by truck (they live 45 minutes away) and my daughter announced to her nana "arms and legs fall asleep sometimes too you know" that is Roz speak for could you please move your seat up? I feel your pain Heather, I do.

We've been this way from the start with our boys. Are we the meanest parents they know? Mmmmaybe. But when, out of the blue, I pull a bag of gummie bears out of the glove box and say, "Hey, anybody want a gummie bear?" I am the most astonishing creature that ever lived.

Setting yourself up to be the person who says No all the time is a drag. It's funner to be the occasional bestower of unexpected booty.

This might work with men, come to think of it. But... no.

This has nothing to do with sweeties. For some really interesting conversations ask Leta if she remembers when she didn't want to walk or if she remembers when she was born and ask her for details. Do it before she gets much older. It's very enlightening.

What kind of cookies did you bake? We've cut cookies out altogether at our house. No treats of any kind right now. But, we don't have kids and are doing a fitness challenge. Only four weeks left and then we can have a treat!

When my kids call me 'mean', my response is, "I practice." Treats are just exactly that, treats, not a daily indulgence. You go girl!

that's adorable! i love treats, too, but it's not as treaty when you expect it all the time - sinking into the chocolate after not having any for so long is the best part!

p.s. beautiful picture of her today!

I am right there with you on the 4 year old eating struggles. I met with a pediatric nutritionist (for a different child) and she told me that you should not coax or beg or bribe (who knew? I thought that's what dinner was for!). She said the only rule should be that he has to sit with us at the table for 20 minutes. He can eat whatever he wants....if it's two bites than that's it. whatever. mom get over it. then you are supposed to institute the no food between meals concept.
yeah.....basically dinner is much nicer now but my kids eats nothing and wont put a vegetable in his mouth if his life depended on it!

I'd be the one to need cut the cookies, but you won't see me doing that anytime soon. Chocolate chip cookies should be its own food group.

I gave my kids cake for dinner once to their eternal delight. I was beyond stressed, had a headache, and there was nothing in the house. They got cake. It was *awesome.*

Sometimes holding a little back (or substitution with veggies) makes those treats better in the long run anyway. It's only recently, you know, that Coke replaced water in the American diet...

I've been reading your archives lately, and there is a constant evolution taking place in your writing.
You were great then, but you are fantastic now.
You have come a long way from "albino rain drops" thats for sure. Your growth is phenomenal! Oh, and a huge thanks for making my days a little less red.

Claire.

I'm 22 and I completely remember negotiating with my parents about dessert when I was really tiny. It went something like:

"I'm full, can I have dessert now?"

"Aren't you too full for dessert?"

"No, my dinner tummy is full, not my dessert tummy!"

Surprisingly, I think it actually worked a few times.

I'm also a "sparse treater" as...well..pre-kids it isn't like I ate a treat after every meal so why teach them to indulge?? But every once in awhile I do the same thing as my mom: SUNDAES FOR DINNER! The house goes nuts and since I made it out alive - I'm pretty sure they will too :)

Dude! Don't go giving away the secret behind baking good cookies. If my sister ever finds out that ALL I do is take them out of the oven early, I'm toast.

So you are competing with me for "Meanest Mother In the
World" award? You got a way to go, baby!o

I am living this right now.

I got rid of the desert/treat thing ages ago. Only once a week or on those special occassions.

I think parents make it harder on themselves than it is for the child. Like getting rid of the binkie/pacifier...I mean just do it already!

oppositionally (or maybe tangentially?), this reminds me of my beloved (and, now, deceased) gramma, who was ill and on medication a few years before she died. she'd eat until she was "full," which was not much food at ALL, and then she'd announce her extreme fullness (she'd had mini strokes). next, we'd ask if she'd like some dessert. her answer? "just a little," with her thumbs and forefingers of each hand touching, indicating the quantity. still cracks me up.

p.s. i adore the way you can read leta and then convey that to us. and your love for her is strikingly poignant. thanks.

I don't care what any says about your choice in politics I don't think you need such jerks reading your cool site anyways. I give you kudos for the pro-choice post and your reply and extra kudos for your splendid parenting skills. You are a great person, a wise lady and a wonderful parent! Hoorah for you!! :) Thanks for all the laughs!

Exactly the same here -- if we don't give our 5 year old a snack after school and she started eating dinner. As it turns out, she was getting a snack at school, another at daycare, and then one at home...

Heh. Reading this, I just now realized we did the same thing to our cat several years ago -- it got to the point where she would only eat her dry food if we put cat treats on top, so we quit giving them to her altogether. Amazingly, she did not starve. *eyeroll*

It's called "underdone chocolate chip cookie orgasm" if you want to know.

Also, I may NEVER EVER EVER forgive you for not telling me you were going to be in Kansas City. I live in Lawrence, for God's sake. I'd have made the 30 min. drive to stalk you.

I've DREAMED about meeting you for God's sake woman. Show some respect.

You're's DOOCINGLY, Katie Kat. *kiss kiss*

I just...I simply LIKE you people. I think we would be friends.

I had no idea about the treats article when I hopped on here to leave you a comment, but it seems synchronistic (is that a word?). I just watched an interview of Karen Knowler, a raw foods coach, and I was pondering the whole thing and suddenly thought of you. I have this strong hunch about you and her. I think you need to ring her up in the UK and, I dunno, just have a chat. Maybe ask her to tell you a bit about what it is she does (you'll think of something).

I think maybe you two were meant to do something together, maybe something big. In any event, I'm sure you'd hit it off, and at the very least, you'd have a new best friend across the pond.

And it also occurred to me.....I wonder if Heather is Oprah in her early years? You've developed this ginormous (yes, that's *definitely* a word), trusting and open audience and, very soon, you're going to take this huge leap into the next incredible, unforeseen, blindingly brilliant phase of your life, and you'll bring everyone stumbling along with you. What a thought.

Oh, and in support of the inimitable Leta:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1WC6hNTONg

I got out of a warm bed to write this note. So I do hope you scroll down and read comment number 5,682,378.

My mom was very strict on the treat front as well. Treats were for Fridays. Except for ice cream. Ice cream was for everyday. It's her favorite food, so how could she deny us the same joy. Now ice cream is my favorite food, too. But my sister like veggies. My sister is very weird.

I'm a vanilla ice cream man myself, Breyer's preferrably.

I know that one day when I have kids, I want to raise them vegan from the upstart so that they'll never know any different and won't feel like it's natural to put junk in our bodies.
Well, done, that takes a lot of guts and a lot of people are going to give you slack.
It's okay their children won't just be dressed like overweight tourists - they will be over weight tourists. Clogs, clogs, here they come.

When you started the treat embargo, we were going through something similar in our house. My three-year-old wailed for snacks before dinner every night. Even when dinner was moments away, he insisted he needed some crackers, a cheese stick, veggie bootie, etc. Those snacks inevitable lead to his not eating his meal. We also struggled with desserts and negotiating. Some of my less proud parenting moments were displayed over spinach negotiations.

Now, no more snacks and no more discussing desserts. Unless it's a special occasion, desserts are out of sight, out of mind. (Because *I* still like them, and I eat all my dinner! :-)

I have observed that this leads to enormous breakfast appetites. Sigh.

I can remember when my Mom discontinued dessert. It had become the end goal of dinner. Things were much calmer after that.

Years later I got a job as a teenager in a bakery. Everyone else averaged a weight gain of about 10 pounds, taking full advantage of the requirement to become familiar with the taste of everything. I made it through relatively unscathed.

I see a connection there somewhere.