And yet, the polls are, for the third election in a row, split rather evenly. Single digit differences do not a mandate make. Frightening.

Can't we just split of into the United Blue Staters of America?

You might also want to check out Cecily's latest post at Uppercase woman.

http://zia.blogs.com/wastedbirthcontrol/

I honestly don't think this air quote thing is as big a deal as people think. I work in the healthcare industry and no one and no legislation is going to put the mother's care second to the baby's. Not going to happen.

I'm part of the ol' 8% --the undecided vote. And I have a uterus. I don't like John McCain, but I do tire of hearing how "scared" everyone is of him, as though he's some complete radical who can single-handedly overturn legislation overnight. But I expect you'll get a lot of the predictable "he's scary" comments.

Thanks for sharing these, Heather. I was so mad I couldn't see straight during that part of the debate. I do not consider myself pro-choice or pro-life. I believe in a person's right to die with dignity, and I believe in a woman's right to terminate her pregnancy if her health or life is in danger. I don't agree with abortion on demand, but as a woman who lost my child due to complications in a stillbirth and nearly died myself due to the complications, I just wanted to reach through the tv and strangle that bastard!! I don't need a politician to tell me what I can and can't do with my own body should I, God forbid, ever go through that horrific experience again. Which is just one more reason THIS Midwestern Republican is voting for Obama this year!

“the courage of a pregnant mother to bring her child into the world and the compassion of civil society to meet her needs and those of her newborn baby.”

umm...correct me if i am wrong, but this is the party that feels welfare should not exist, but some how the compassion of civil society will meet her needs?

maybe he should place all of the uninsured babies on his personal insurance to make sure they are cared for, think he will go for that...

I couldn't agree more. In addition to the raging abortion issue, there is the frightening reality that by voting for McCain, Sarah Palin could someday be president. Ask yourself, is that really what we want for the US?

How very "courageous" of you to dive into politics at the risk of alienating about 39% of your readership. You saved me from tuning in on other facets of the liberal media.
I think you are a uniquely talented and creative writer--but I'd rather not hear about your politics.

The notion that women and doctors would game the, 'if the mother's life is in danger' clause to justify an abortion even when the mother life isn't in danger, is a disgusting insult no matter which side of the abortion issue you are on. Safeguards can certainly be included to reduce abuse. Safeguards MUST be included for the mother's health/life regardless.

There is much cruelty afoot.

I love your politics, and the fact that you have featured two of my favorite blogs too. To those who immediately want to dismiss this as just another liberal thing, read the posts. They matter, and I can say that as someone who is not a fan of abortion, but who very much liked living through a life threatening pregnancy.

Sorry to go against the majority here but McCain's feelings about abortion are one of the main reasons I am voting for him. Do I think he is going to win? No, I don't - which makes me very nervous for the future of our country.

I agree about splitting the U.S. into two countries, too bad we're so economically interdependent. I love Dooce, but couldn't disagree more on her politics.

As a pro-life woman, who has been unable to get pregnant for years now, the complete and utter disrespect for the uniqueness and preciousness of human life continues to astonish me. How a baby being "unwanted" makes it any less of a life, I will never understand.

This is not an issue I go to the polls for. And the reason for abortion being a non issue for me is because abortions laws vary form state to state. I live in a state where you have to have parental consent to have an abortion however the next state over (I live in the city on the border of both these states) does not enforce the same consent law. 18 state already have legislation that bans partial birth abortions. Also 18 states have a waiting period however only 11 states enforce it.
So to me Abortion isn't something a presidental canidate can affect. HOWEVER-it is something that my state law makers can influence. And that is why it is just as important to vote in the state elections and well as the federal.

Please read the posts I linked to before you comment. Otherwise you look dumb.

I was screaming at the TV when he made these comments. This is the man who voted against insurance companies covering birth control, against free rape kits for women who've been sexually assaulted, and voted against SCHIP. He's obviously a man who really cares about women and children.

the idea of roe v. wade being overturned is impossible for me to contemplate. however, i have increasing faith in the american people that the right decision will be made on nov 4th.

As someone who has worked in the medical industry for some time now and seeing the things I have seen, I believe in both the miracle of birth and the necessity of abortion.

I think sometimes people who are pro-life automatically assume pro-choice is a pseudonym for "KILL ALL BABIES" instead of meaning the right to make a choice. I'm pro-choice for the right to choose whether or not to have a baby, whether or not I exercise my right to vote, whether or not to have one more twinkie.

All I want as a human being is the right to choose what I do to and what happens to my body. I don't think it is right to let someone else choose that for me. I am no man's property. I belong to myself.

Comments like Sara's prompt me to say: if you think the president's views on your hot button issues don't matter, please consider how much the Supreme Court has changed in the last 8 years. Chief Justice John Roberts and Justice Samuel Alito were nominated by GW Bush, and significantly altered the tenor of the Court. If Justice Stevens (88 years old) retires, SCOTUS will be 4-3 conservative-liberal, with Justice Kennedy as the lone indie.
The choice we make this election will likely have long-lasting repercussions on issues like abortion, gay marriage, gun control, and habeas corpus for prisoners in Guantanamo Bay. If any of those happen to be important to you, please research the candidates and VOTE!

My question is: When did being "Pro-Choice" turn into being "Pro-Abortion"?

I was just wondering, after reading your post yesterday, would you vote for McCain had you had the same mindset and values as you did in college?

What really drove me crazy about that was just mere minutes before making the airquoted comments, he'd railed about being a federalist in the context of healthcare. A federalist, who believes that the government shouldn't interfere with Americans' choice regarding their healthcare, it should be a free market not regulated by the government. If the government stepped in, they'd lose their choice! About healthcare! My husband and I were screaming at Obama on the TV screen during the later abortion segment of the debate: TELL HIM HE SHOULD BE A FEDERALIST ABOUT ABORTION THEN TOO! ISN'T THAT CHOICE A PART OF MY OWN PERSONAL DECISION ABOUT "HEALTHCARE"? Augh.

I won't vote for John McCain largely because of his views on abortion. However, he does not sicken me in any way. I disagree with him, but he has led a great life and made difficult decisions many times in his life. He is a man, unlike the vast majority of Pro-life men, who has faced decisions and situations worse than an unwanted pregnancy.

It's worth noting that Obama said roughly the following in the debate:

"I fully support making late-term abortions illegal except to save the life or the health of the mother."

What did he mean by late-term? Hard to say, completely ambiguous. Did he vote against the bill that would have made so-called partial birth abortions, done almost exclusively to save the life of the mother, illegal, even when the health of the mother was endangered? NO. He voted present.

Obama is no saint wrt abortion rights either. He is clearly the better choice for those of us who value abortion rights, but he is not passionate about the issue.

Choice is just that. It's a woman's choice to have a child or not, in consultation with her spouse, her doctor and her clergy. That's what Roe v. Wade is about. Just because someone is pro-choice that doesn't mean that I want everyone to have an abortion. I would like it to be safe, legal and rare. I don't understand the problem most anti-abortion people have with it. If you're against abortion then don't have one. But don't infring upon my right to choose.

The scary fact is that if McCain is the next president, then when he appoints one or two new Supreme court justices, then Roe v. Wade will likely be overturned. States would have the option to make abortion illegal again. Resulting in many women choosing illegal abortions and possibly death as a result of them... just like in the bad old days prior to Roe v. Wade.

Long time lurker, first time poster.

I was so offended by McCain's choice of words - calling it the "pro-abortion" movement. As Barack Obama pointed out, no one is pro-abortion. Why can't we agree that both sides want to reduce the number of abortions? The pro-CHOICE movement wants to keep abortion safe and legal while also investing in prevention such as sex education, family planning, birth control resources and counseling.

When the pro-life movement actually puts into place plans to help the mother after giving birth - with childcare, education resources, job training, etc - then I might change my tune. But the pro-lifers I have had the pleasure of talking to are only concerned with the birth of the child and don't expect to put any resources towards these babies or their mothers once they are born.

And don't even get me started on McCain's laugh and roll of the eyes when talking about the mother's "health" - his quotes, not mine. How any woman can vote for this man is beyond me.

What I've always hated about this issue were the terms used for your stance - you're either pro-life (can you hear the choirs of angels singing??) or pro-choice (hmmm, I think I’ll flip a coin to see if I’ll get an abortion today…). It’s not like pro-choicer are out there trying to persuade pregnant women to get an abortion (“Oh come on Suzy, everybody’s doing it”), and yet, what, the government thinks that women aren’t smart enough to make this life-changing decision on our own – so they better do it for us? I’m not pro-life, but I’m not pro-death either. I’m pro-making-the-best-decision-for-my-situation.

Sigh! I will be glad when this election is over so you will go back to being funny.

To JO:

Late-term is generally taken to mean third trimester.

And Obama did not vote for that bill because it did NOT include a provision for the life or health of the mother. It just flat-out banned partial-birth abortions without any exceptions for the mother. That's why he (and many others - it did not pass) didn't feel comfortable voting for it.

#39 - There is nothing innocent about "forgetting" to use a condom and winding up pregnant. Rape is another thing. For crying out loud people...live with your choices, mistake or not.

One more thing. Beyond the words that McCain uses to pander to his base, I hated the air quotes.

I hated the air quotes combined with the sound of him sucking his teeth. I cannot stand to listen to that for the next four years.

GO KNOCK ON DOORS. VOLUNTEER TO DRIVE YOUR NEIGHBOR TO THE POLLS. GO VOTE!!!

Yes, Stacy, because being funny is so much more important than my civil rights.

He is a cluless ass. I do not understand how the masses thinks he is in touch with today's needs. Abortion is not the governments business. Plain and simple.

I am, frankly, baffled by much of the rhetoric coming from the conservative side regarding women's health and reproductive choices -- namely abortion, obviously. It seems as though they think women are just RUNNING OUT TO HAVE ALL SORTS OF IMMORAL AND CRAZY SEX ALL THE DAMN TIME SO THEY CAN GET THEIR ABORTIONS! ABORTIONS! MY GOD WE JUST LOVE GETTING ABORTIONS!

I don't know a single woman who has had an abortion without a second thought. Even if she hasn't had to struggle with guilt (like many of us raised in Christian or other conservative households do), she has had to struggle with how she is perceived by friends and family or even her lover.

The other day, I saw a conservative blog ranting about how us liberals want women to go around having wild, unprotected sex just so we will get knocked up and have abortions, thereby (and I shit you not, they actually said this) "Fund the multi-billion dollar per year abortion mill industry."

My mom still refuses to vote for Obama because, "he is okay with killing babies."

Heather--

I love your writing. I repeat-LOVE YOUR WRITING. I never miss a day of reading each and every post. I must say though, please get over the fact that every single person in this country (including your readers) have varying opinions on every issue. It's becoming very clear that your "open-mind" is narrowing more and more every day by consistently closing the door on any opinion that isn't yours. And, hey, I'm even voting for Obama. We're on the same side and I'm still getting tired of your rants.

Thank you for those links. They were so affecting. I immediately posted the links on my facebook, knowing it would piss off my conservative friends and family members, because I have the tiny hope that one of these entries will make one of them think in a broader way about this subject. (I'm hoping for my 18 yr old niece, who I love so much in spite of her extreme conservative views and troublingly uncomplicated sense of rightousness, and who is like the Lutheran twin of the teenager you used to be.) It's worth pissing people off if you can help even one person expand his or her perspective.

As I'm sure you know.

HOW DARE YOU WRITE ABOUT SOMETHING YOU CARE ABOUT ON YOUR VERY OWN BLOG!

I can't even talk about politics with my family, I just avoid saying anything whenever Daniel starts to talk about Obama.

When I read Alexa's entry I teared up. I watched the debate and McCain's response caught me as inappropriate generally for various reasons. There are a lot of things I don't understand about extremely religious people. For example I can't understand why Bush would oppose abortion on moral grounds but be fine with lying to the American people in an attempt to start a war in Iraq that would kill hundreds of thousands of Iraqs and thousands of Americans. The same religion that allowed slavery to exist in this country as a biblical right. This things are beyond my understanding. But as I heard McCain speak it occured to me that the value of an unborn life is given more weight by them than a living breathing person. As a father I now understand that I and my wife would both give our lives willingly for our children. And as Alexa said the choice of aborting the living being wiggling inside of you is not one made on a whim. Decisions on when these procedures should or should not apply should be left in the hands of doctors and parents not in the hands of people driven blind by religion. A religion that can be twisted to make slavery and war appropriate. A religion that can change to fit the holder's needs is not an objective body that deserves to be foisted upon the masses.

Is there really a separation between religion and the state in this country? Between the gay marriage issues, abortion rights issues and stem-cell research issues.....seems like there is actually very little that is not governed by religion here.

I've read both posts, and largely agree. However, I'm far, far more scared of the effect on women's health issues from bully obstetrician-gynecologists and their propaganda machines waging war on normal physiological birth. Talk about removing choice, and using fear as a weapon...
Please read Pushed by Jennifer Block to learn more about how much of the current hospital, physician, and insurance systems are assaulting women everyday.

Voters need to understand that YES the next president WILL have the power to overturn Roe v Wade and many other important legislation. Educate yourself about how the Supereme Court works people. Justice Stevens is not well and it is a very real possibility that the next President will be appointing his replacement. They are so close to a majority already, it will only take one more vote to change your life (and your rights) for a very long time. And I am not just talking about Roe v Wade either. The Supreme Court has very real power. Learn it, understand it, and VOTE.

1. It's probably a good thing he's running for President, and not Supreme Court Justice then, right? (Hint: The President can't overturn Roe v Wade.)

2. Even if enough liberal Justices died/retired and were replaced with conservative judges (With a Democrat-majority congress to fight the nominations? Impossible.) who wanted to overturn Roe v Wade, that doesn't mean abortion becomes illegal. It just means that it stops being federally mandated. The decision on abortion would go back to the individual states.

So relax. Jeez. Hysteria isn't going to help anyone.

I would like to see every pro-life person adopt an unwanted child, before they can decide they are pro-life. If that happened, maybe there would be no need for abortion.
Also, for those who say if you work hard, you can afford healthcare, I disagree. There are many people who have to take low paying jobs with no benefits, for their own personal reasons. And, we all rely on these jobs to get done. I always think, 'but for the grace of God' that could be me. To quote 'Barnyard'- A strong man helps himself, a stronger man helps others.

I know you will get flack for this post, as you always do with anything of the political. But speaking for those of us who do not have a popular blog for a platform, THANK YOU!

I have both a uterus and a brain. And I'm still voting for McCain/Palin.

I read both of these great ladies blogs and appreciate them so much for being able to say what so many of us want to say but can't. And thank you Heather for sending the masses to their sites so that maybe more people can understand just how dangerous it would be for John McCain to be in office.

The spirit in me tells me that abortion is wrong...for me. My spirit also tells me that absolutely
NO ONE
EVER
has the right to tell me what to do with my body, her body or his body.

This is not the only campaign issue and it actually should not be a campaign issue at all but I am going to fight until I have no fight left for my fellow Americans. This government has no right to tell me or anyone else what to do with their bodies.

I'm pro-life. So are all democrats.

I am pro- programs that provide life-sustaining services, including food, shelter, and healthcare to women, families and children.

I am pro- bringing life into the world in a responsible manner. So I support sexuality education and healthcare programs that empower women and their partners to decide when to become parents by providing them with knowledge and access to family planning resources, including accurate and practical information regarding abstinence, natural family planning, barrier methods, and hormonal contraception.

I am pro-mothers. I believe all women who become pregnant should have a legitimate choice - to decide whether they wish to parent a child, become a birthmother, or terminate the pregnancy. I believe that the government has a role in ensuring that all of these choices are real possibilities, and not theoretical abstractions. ("Deciding to parent" is great, but if the government is so committed to the sanctity of the life inside my hypothetical womb, I want you to promise my future child that I will have the resources to be a good parent.)

Nobody is pro-abortion.
But my vote goes to the politician who recognizes that, even when all of the above programs are in place (... all of them, surprisingly, the kinds of programs that conservatives generally oppose), there will still be a need for abortions. And when that need arises, the decision of whether and how and when to terminate the pregnancy is a medical one. My vote goes to the politician who recognizes that he is not my doctor, and he is not my conscience, and he is not God - he cannot possibly imagine all of the possible scenarios that will dictate what the "right" choice would be in any given situation. So he will trust that I - and all women - are capable of making the best decisions for ourselves and our children.

"It's becoming very clear that your "open-mind" is narrowing more and more every day by consistently closing the door on any opinion that isn't yours. "

I agree. When I read your "mortified" post the other day it occurred to me that you are an all-or-nothing gal. You really go deep into your beliefs and then close your mind to the other options. Which is fine, this is your blog, this is your life, but it is kind of ironic as it is the opposite of what you preach so proudly.

I have a hard time reading these comments about the government ignoring the needs of its citizens when it comes to health care issues. For single mothers and families who cant afford health insurance there are several programs available where families dont have to pay a dime, such as the CHIP program.

I just have a hard time wanting to rely on the government for health care. They have done a horrible job at running Social Security, and if you want to see how government really runs health care talk to a Vet who has had the wonderful pleasure of using the VA for care services and see how smoothly their experiance went.

I for one, am more scared of becoming a socialist society and destroying the capitalist fire that makes this country great. What happened to Americans working hard and taking care of themselves, providing opportunity for their businesses to grow. Now days we are to quick to turn to the government for handouts when things get tough. I understand that there will always be people in need and there are programs availble to take care of them.

Obama is all about socializing health care, as well as getting rid of those evil companies who have actually made a profit. Who do you think will pay the taxes that he intends to raise on the corperate world. We will cause they will raise prices on their products to cover the costs of the extra taxes they have to pay. I got a C+ in Economics in college and I can understand that policy.

In the fragile state that our Economy is in do we really need more taxes put on struggling companies that are barely making ends meet. I have had my own business, and know how it is to do $300,000 a year in business and barely make it cause of all the costs that are involved in running your own business. And believe me you pay a lot of taxes on the money your business makes, at the end of the month there isn't very much left over for your own pay check. It is not that I make $300,000 a year but my business does that much in sales a year. If the taxes were to increase for my type of business it would cripple my business and probably make it fail, along with several other businesses in this country. That is why Obama scares the shit out of me!

Thank you, Heather, for continuing to bring up issues that are important. I LOVE your blog, and the mix of light and serious topics.

For the people who only want you to be fluffy and light, I suggest they stop reading and go back their bonbons and Days of Our Lives...

The rest of us CARE about what's going on in this country and aren't afraid to hear and talk about it.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

When J-Mc made those air quotes when he was talking about the health of the mother I wanted to scream. HOW is it that pro-life ends when a baby is born? What about the mother's life? Isn't that still valuable?

And I am so offended that he chooses to call the pro-choice movement the "pro-abortion" movement. I am 100% pro-choice and 100% anti-abortion--for me. I would never judge you for making a different choice and I would certainly never say that ANYONE is pro-abortion. I know that it is a very hard decision and it is never taken lightly.

Shame on him for his treatment of women, especially given that he has daughters.

You're right. I was dumb.

Those links are powerful. Very well written and definitely make the point. Thank you for sharing.

Anon@83: I believe Obama himself noted that nobody is really pro-abortion per se--as abortion is a not-fun, invasive medical procedure. But what pro-choicers are in favour of is access to birth control, unbiased information, and medical options for women that will hopefully prevent the need for abortion in most cases. But every woman should retain the right to make a decision about her body--being pregnant can be a huge bodily change, at best, and a life-threatening situation, at worst--and she should be able to decide for herself. Every time I hear people refer to abortion as a convenience, it makes me see red. There is nothing "convenient" about a costly surgery (although thanks to PP, semi-affordable compared to other surgeries) which you will spend a week or two recovering from. Nobody waves a magic wand and *poof* you aren't pregnant anymore. It's a medical choice.

Also, I'd like to note that while McCain and Palin talk about equal pay for women, McCain couldn't be bothered to vote on the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, but said he would have opposed it anyway, since he said it opened up the possibility for frivolous lawsuits. Basically when McCain talks women's rights, he's insincere. He's used the word "frivolous" to refer to both abortion and equal pay--I can't take him seriously as a candidate that would support me.

I can't wait for November 5th.

Sigh.

When anyone reduces an election to a single issue--especially one that involves the right to fill an unborn child--it is sad.

Your original example from Alexa of Flotsam is a perfect example. She puts words in Sen. McCain's mouth that he DID NOT SAY. But that's so typical of the liberal left. He did NOT say having an abortion is the easy way out (that's Alexa's own guilt shining through). If she wants to question what is compassionate, she should ask Obama why he voted not to have hospitals provide care for babies that survived botched abortions. Hmmm. Apparently that is the modicum of compassion the majority of posters here subscribe to.

All of which is why it is harder and harder to justify any meaningful friendships with anyone who is a bleeding heart Liberal. Many of whom value the life of a convicted murder or child molester more than they do that of an unborn child.

Stances such as this totally ignore the fact that the vast majority of Americans see the abortion issue in shades of gray...not black or white. Very few think no abortions should ever be allowed in any circustances. And very few think abortions should be allowed at any time for any reason even into the third trimester. Well, except for a few here who reduce everything to a up/down litmus test on abortion. Get a life.

Alexa and Julie are very eloquent. I agree with them wholeheartedly. I am also VERY glad that I have already voted by absentee ballot and you can bet it wasn't for McCain and that backwards woman Palin. I'm curious how many others out there have already voted by absentee.

I love everyone saying that women should just make sure to use contraceptives and they won't get pregnant, so abortion shouldn't be an issue. Guess what? I was an unplanned child, courtesy of condom failure. My brother was a failure of both condoms AND birth control pills. Sometimes you find yourself in that tiny percentage, despite being careful, and having the option to terminate should always be there.

i think the term "anti-choice" should be used with more regularity. it is much more accurately descriptive of the associated sentiments than the outdated "pro-life."

Heather, I am so grateful that you are writing about politics, although I know you can't influence everyone, you can present the facts. McCain and Palin scare me, they really do. She is a complete narcissist. To be one heartbeat away from the presidency after being a mayor of a small town and governor of Alaska is beyond frightening. It's true that Obama hasn't been tested, but he is extremely brilliant, his leadership skills are superb and he has the best minds in the country supporting him. And he inspires young people - which is great.

McCain's tax plans will send this country further into the toilet. How could anyone in their right mind who is not a member of the top five percent in this country even consider voting for them?

And abortion? That was decided forty years ago. Leave it alone. Women - do we really want the government telling us what we can and cannot do when it comes to bringing a life into this world. I have a twenty year-old daughter and raising her has been the toughest job I've ever done

As a former writer of "Guiding Light" - which I guess you used to watch - I am thrilled that we women have the chance to really affect the outcome of this election and throw the Republicans out of the White House and Congress. Thanks for taking a leadership role in the discussion.

Abortion really isn't a religious issue, it is a legal issue...taking a life is taking a life...murder isn't a religious issue...I am a pretty liberal feminist...but this issue doesn't belong in that context

I agree that abortion is a sticky subject and that in reality, it should be someone's choice to live with what can reasonably construed as murder.

However, none of this makes me reconsider voting for McCain. Abortion is always a "non-issue" that is construed to be so very important. Honestly, it's the last thing on my mind this election.

I am a yellow dog democrat living in Tx, xCatholic, xMormon, Chritian and married - I am not a fan of bush or what has happened in the last 8 yrs. I am also a women who can not get/stay pregnant. I have tried to adopt special needs chidren (siblings) through tx child protective services and terminated the adoption (a whole other topic of discussion). The issue of abortion is much bigger then abortion. If the government can control what I as a women does w/my body - its a short jump for the govt controlling all our bodies - including our children. Keep in mind how we vote today effects us years from now and sets precendences that can be fought in the courts. Who is to say if they overturn roe v. wade that in 10 yrs they (govt) wont mandate we all give up a kidney whether we like it or not - or force people to have children and give them away. God bless us all... and god help us if mccain/palin win the election. I will be one of the hundreds/thousands heading north toward canada.

To anyone who doubts the president will have any impact on abortion policy in the U.S., let me remind you that the next president will most likely appoint one or two new justices to the U.S. Supreme Court. This could most definitely affect the outcome of an abortion case, including the possible overturning of Roe v. Wade.

Government has no place in the issue of abortion- unless it is to regulate the sanitary conditions of the facilities or the necessary qualifications of the doctors. McCain is confused, dilusional, and frankly needs to bow down……Men have no concept of the emotional and physical trauma of abortion- the issue needs to be mute when it comes to presidentail debates and governmental discussions.

But what about small business owners? I think YOU might be considered a small business owner with your little online empire here...or the REAL small business owners with overhead and employees and the like. Abortion and war aside, we have all learned in recent weeks that it's the economy that makes the country run, so by voting for your liberal values alone will KILL this country when small businesses begin closing left and right due to their struggle with obama's tax increases.

it's easy to become utopian in an election year and forget the REALITY of how the world works...

Just a thought...

I am glad to have stumbled upon this post today. Somehow, I missed the AIR QUOTES when I watched the debate yesterday on my DVR while running around after my two kids.
What I'd heard was McCain throwing around the term "pro- abortion" which as I've felt for a long time is the ignorant umbrella that pro-lifers hold over pro-choicers. No one, let me reapeat, NO ONE is pro- abortion. Those of us who believe in Choice want women to have access to safe and legal procedures. Period.

Before this debate, I was not planning on voting for McCain. Now, after seeing his performance, I am sickened by his total disregard for women's health and his belief that women and their doctors and families can't make up their own minds about this issue. He and Palin DO want to put women back in the dark ages and quite frankly, I've gone from simply not wanting to vote for him, to being quite afraid of him. It seems obvious that in his panic over poll numbers, he is showing his true colors...

Thanks, Heather.

122. Erin said: the next president will most likely appoint one or two new justices to the U.S. Supreme Court. This could most definitely affect the outcome of an abortion case, including the possible overturning of Roe v. Wade.

--

You think a pro-life Justice is going to be appointed, with a Democrat-majority congress. You're kidding, right?

Hey, Dooce, I realize that certain Republican options aren't so hot this year, but, erm, I don't find Mr. Obama to be so hot, either. Honestly? The man's too new and has no "network" in Washington to shore him up; he's going to have to rob Peter to pay Paul just to get his nearest and dearest pet projects through Congress - even a Democratic one. As with Clinton, the GOP will dog Obama his entire presidency -- to appease them (because Barack is an appeaser, not a stand-your-ground type), he will easily give in and, like the current crop of Democrats in Congress, send important issues down the tubes. I don't have much faith in Mr. Obama to keep the GOP hands off things like Roe v. Wade.

Thankfully, I live in Illinois (Chicago, to be exact), my vote is utterly useless thanks to the Obamabots here -- this means I can vote for exactly the party I want (no Al Gore or John Kerry because "the party needs me to" crap this time!). I will be voting Green all the way. If I'm feeling even more emboldened, I will write in Hillary Clinton. Yes, I'm a Hillary fan -- she, at least, has balls (or, should I say ovaries?...)

I don't understand. Is everyone seriously THAT retarded??? I don't think one person who commented so far actually a.) READ the blog entries that were posted or b.) COMPREHENDED what the discussion is actually about. America seriously lacks comprehension. So much so that it is fucking scary as shit. If you can't read an article and even grasp a minute concept from the piece, then are you REALLY an educated person? I don't care who you are, what you do, what kind of education and training you have. You are dumb as fuck if you seriously think that this whole conversation is about abortion. DUMB. AS. FUCK.

This isn't about abortion. It isn't about pro-life or pro-choice. It isn't about anti-abortion or anti-choice. It's about McCain's idiotic representation of a WOMAN. His IDEAS of a WOMAN. And what he thinks about the well-being of a woman.
Using the oh-so-popular "air quotes" to classify the HEALTH OF A WOMAN. So to say that the health of a woman is something to be rationalized. The well-being of a woman is something that should fall within certain boundaries. The LIFE of a WOMAN is something that needs to have rigid definition and should NOT be stretched to consider all situations.
Are you a woman? Do you KNOW any women? Even just one woman, who you might remotely care about and might be willing to save her life? If so, THAT is why you should not vote for McCain. Not because he's going to make abortions illegal (it ain't gonna happen, it's just not). Not because he's pro-life (there's nothing wrong with being pro-life). But because, as a leader of this ENTIRE COUNTRY, he thinks that the HEALTH OF A WOMAN is something secondary.

If after all of this, you're still going to vote for McCain, my heart weeps for you and any women in your life. I truly, deeply, feel very VERY sorry for you.

I think that better access to contraceptives and education would help reduce the number of abortions in the country, but McCain would never go for that. Nor would his party.

While I was bothered by the air quotes, I was also frustrated by the way he framed the issue. Obama talked about a woman talking to her family, physician, and those close to her to make an informed decision. McCain talked about some young woman who makes up some reason, presumably on a whim because that's how he thinks young women make decisions, to terminate a pregnancy.

What McCain is forgetting is that some women who seek abortions are older, married women who already have children.

The GOP regularly treats women as irrational, child-like beings who can't make decisions for themselves. It's insulting.

Right On-You are WRONG! Obama does support care of infants in failed abortions. If you watched the debate, he explained that he didn't not vote because their is ALREADY a law in the books that supports care of infants in failed abortion. There was no need for another LAW. This was a manipulation of the facts by MCCain

Cari O--#127...So you only care about Palin's view? She is the only candidate of the 4 that can have an abortion. Good to know.

I love reading your blog Heather, and I will continue to read and enjoy it, but I definitely disagree on this issue.

I got pregnant when I was 20 and chose not to abort my daughter, even though her birth would change my life irrevocably. I didn't have the money at the time to pay out of pocket my healthcare, so I went on medicaid. I stayed on medicaid for approximately two years, until I had a job and then did what was intended - I took myself, and my daughter...off medicaid. Actually, it was harder to get OFF medicaid than get on.

So, yes, "a compassionate civil society" met mine and my daughters needs, and then when I was self-sufficent, I met those needs myself.

Republicans do not believe that ALL welfare should be abandoned. What we DO believe in is individual responsibility and a "hand up" when needed.

For myself, I'm voting for Mickey Mouse.

A legal expert I know has assured me that the idea of Roe v. Wade being overturned is preposterous, given the fact that our legal system relies on precedent. The idea generates lots of emotion, but it's a moot point. No voter needs to fear that.

That said, I don't subscribe to the "abortion is OK no matter what" stance. Because in many instances there is NO DOUBT that what we are doing is killing babies. I'm not talking about cases where the mother's health is in danger. In such cases clearly a choice must be made, and it is a painful, difficult process for the mother involved. I'm talking about something else. In many states late-term, partial-birth abortions are legal. These kids - and they are kids - are the same congenital age I was when I was born two months prematurely, weighing only 3 pounds. Should another "fetus," at the same age and state of development that I was when I was born, be denied a chance to live? It isn't just about "legislating my own womb." The issue is much murkier than that. Apparently Obama believes this, too.

It's a bit two-faced of us, as a society, to declare that these aren't children we're killing, when, should a pregnant woman be murdered, we charge the killer with TWO counts of murder, not one. Is a fetus a child only if the mother decides to keep it?

Women today have many choices. Some would say the "right to choose" comes at the time of having sex: whether to have sex, whether to have it responsibly, and what form of birth control one prefers. As a society, if we emphasized those choices and did a better job of educating our young women and men about them, there might be less need for abortions, which, while necessary in some circumstances, are being increasingly used as a form of birth control.

I couldn't agree with those two women more.

John McCain disgusts me with his ivory tower perspectives on the state of our country and what needs to be done to fix its problems, and I find his condescending smirks and remarks during every single debate infuriating enough to want to reach through my t.v. screen and slap him. His attitudes on abortion and his attacks on Obama for his votes on late-term abortion matters sent me into a fury. He's a raging idiot!

McCain has NO CLUE what the average person in America is going through right now. He has NO CLUE what it's like to have ANY of his own rights taken away. And he has NO CLUE how to bring about the CHANGE that is desperately needed in this country. The idea of him in the Oval Office scares the living daylights out of me.

Praying for a HUGE Obama win on election night,
Super Woman in WI

Absolutely agree with the post and with you posting it.

I don't really understand why people get up in arms when you post something with regards to your political views.. this is a BLOG. Regardless of what readers think, blogs are about the individual views of the blogger. If they disagree they can either: a) not read it, b) read it and choose to learn something about people with differing views, or b) write their own blog.

First off, I'm NOT voting for McCain because I DO support traditional family values - like not having affairs and leaving your wife and kids for a hot young heiress, and having a parent home to raise and supervise the kids. Doing what is best for the FAMILY.

However, I do not agree that abortion is a right. It should always be an option when a woman's life is at risk or if her right to choose was denied at conception, but I will never understand why a woman can or should be able to choose to end a life she chose to start. The choosing time comes before the baby is made - this is NOT the 50's; women and men have unlimited access to contraception. We treat life and sex much too frivolously.

Having watched the adoption process take place, I think every child is entitled to have a mom and dad who WANT to be a mom and dad and going through the pain and inconvenience of child birth beats the pants off ending a perfect potential person. Don't be a mom if you're not ready, but aborting for reasons of inconvenience or embarrassment are not sufficient.

Sincerely,

a blue dot in a red state.

Both of those blogs were very well written and I could not agree with each of them more.

I actually left a couple of comments on Julie's blog and I forwarded that entry to a few of people I know who are voting McCain. I was rewarded with several pictures of aborted fetuses for my troubles, with the idea that seeing what my vote for "baby killer Hussein" was going to cause. Apparently, showing photos of dead babies to a pregnant woman not even considering abortion is a "wake up call".

There is so much ignorance. So much.

Thank you for posting these, Heather. I think everyone should have to read these before they cast their votes this election.

Thank you so much for sharing those posts. They moved me and reaffirmed my belief that abortion is a very private decision that needs to be protected.

Jill-I don't know if you are Christian or not, but your views on health care seem very Un-Christian to me.

It kills me that the people who spout about what I should do with MY body, and whether or not consenting adults can be married-are the same people who don't think that we all bare responsibility for anyone else but ourselves. Is that Christian? Is that what Jesus was all about? I thought Jesus was about caring for those less fortunate, about NOT judging others . . . about Giving!

I do think health care is a right.

And if that doesn't convince you, I'll remind you that we all pay anyways. For all the preventive care that people without health care can't afford . . . guess who pays when they end up in the hospital? Oh, and I hope you and your parents never plan on using Medicare, right? That would be taking away from the taxpayers . . . guess you're on your own then too!

I am so done with this.

Can we just vote, already? I'm tired of being called a stupid religious wacko for having an opinion.

I think it's a living thing and worth passing laws about. In fact, I'll even agree with you that those laws by nature are not going to be easy on the women they affect, but there is no way to mediate that result until we can just take out the embryo and let it gestate safely. From there we get into lots of debate and half of you have shut off reading this and hate me already, but I will not assume you are stupid or radical for your beliefs- how about showing the same courtesy to women with whom you all disagree?

If I don't agree with medically optional abortions, am I then yours to vilify? Where's the all-important Tolerance let alone consideration of others? Where's the earnest debate?

I can't believe I even bothered to read the comments or wrote one myself...

Ugh. Everything I read about that man makes me want to vomit all over my own tits.

call me crazy, but i'm of the opinion that each and every woman who has had an abortion has her own story, her own reasons, and her own beliefs about their termination of pregnancy. putting all of them in a box labeled 'young, stupid, & irresponsbile' is dangerous. just like believing beyond a shadow of a doubt that roe v wade will never be overturned.

Reading through this comment thread reinforces my view that Roe v. Wade was wrongly decided.  Not because I think abortion should be illegal, but because it's not a federal issue. SCOTUS should never have take the case in the first place.  The decision to abort is way too personal and it's impossible for any law written at a national level to apply in every situation.

Do I think taxpayers should pay for abortions? Hello No! But then I'm a Libertarian and I don't think the government should be in the health care business at all.

I find it humorous that anyone things that there is that much difference in the candidates. Neither will do anything they said to get elected. They are all about personal power. Vote for whomever helps you sleep at night. Nothing will change one way or the other.

Far be it from any woman who calls themself a Christian to vote for John McCain who actually stands up for his beliefs. That would be wrong how Heather? Just because you have turned your back on the way in which you were raised, doesn't mean that those of us in middle, main stream American don't vote based on our convictions as well as our research. Killing innocent babies is WRONG!

MCCAIN/PAILN will be getting my vote! You bet I will do my part to make sure Obama and his sorry politics won't be running this country for the next 4 years!

Go ahead let the attacks fly, you guys can call me what you want all I am saying is that what ever you call me will NEVER make me change my mind on this election so you will be wasting your time and mine!!

#153: of course i can. a woman can be pro-choice without ever choosing to have an abortion, but you can't be pro-life without disagreeing with that woman's right to make that choice.

The posts you cited are fantastic. Thanks for spreading the word on them.

Uggh, though, I don't know how you read some of this crap sometimes. I felt like strangling McCain the other day with his patronizing, smug, misogynistic frankenstein sneer, and my blood pressure is rising again after reading some of these people here, too.

And as far as Palin goes, there is nothing that demonstrates McCain's misogyny MORE than his choice of her as running mate. Women should be embarrassed and insulted. You know, the thing is, we do need stupid people. They are super useful to society in a variety of ways. But one of their uses is not being a Vice President. Or talking about politics.

It does take a lot of courage to keep an unwanted baby - just as it takes a lot of courage to make the hard decision to terminate. The crux of the matter is it's a personal decision and should continue to be. If we as women stood up and forced these candidates to stop blathering about things that shouldn't be an issue and actually address a few things that are REALLY wrong with this country, it wouldn't be such a hot button issue. They make this an issue and we let them. How do you plan on feeding hungry children? How do you plan on fixing our economic problems without bankrupting the middle class? How do you plan on giving us back our right to not be held without bail, and without representation? These are issues that don't get addressed because they're so busy diverting our attention with issues that should be between a woman, her partner and her doctor.

www.survivallady.com

While Palin was mayor, Wasilla County charged rape victims for their own rape exams (to collect DNA evidence). This practice was changed in 2005, when the United States Senate passed legislation requiring states to provide these exams free of charge. And the senator that sponsored this very woman friendly bill? Joe Biden. Barack Obama was one of 58 co-sponsors. John McCain was not. I'm not saying that Palin was the one the ordered the women to pay for the exams, only that she did nothing to change the practice in the town where she was mayor. From what I've read, Joe Biden has done much more for women's rights than Palin ever has. I am not naïve enough to believe that just because she has a uterus that she's on my side. Sarah Palin does not speak for me as a woman. And I trust her even less than I trust John McCain.

The air quotes around health killed me too. The jerk.

Heather, whatever will you do after the election to grovel for comments?

Ever thought of actually doing something to help other people, like using this site for charity work?

Let's see what controversy you'll drum up next Thursday or Friday (and the next, and the next,)to keep yourself in etsy shop junk and try to boost your sagging readership.

Um, to the previous commentator (Natalie),
I beg to disagree with you, adamantly.

It is a typical pro-life argument to immediately begin talking about morals. Whose morals, yours? Should I be bound by YOUR religious and moral beliefs even though I don't adhere to them....

Last time I checked freedom of religion was included in the rights of American citizens, which means that your particularly Christian stance can not and should not be forced on to me and my personal choices.

Hence, if you find abortion so appaling then perhaps you shouldn't have one and leave everyone else to decide where their own moral compass lies.

Also, to imply that anyone who would vote for Obama doesn't have any morals, um excuse me but who the hell do you think you are to tell me I am immoral to choose a liberal candidate.

Get your head out of your ass.

(And read The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood...)

Abortion has been legal in this country since 1973 and it will stay legal. The right to choose is not going anywhere. And, even if it was to be overturned, it would take years to implement the changes. Voting should not be based on this issue alone. A president is unable to make such a drastic change to our rights just like that. The house and the senate are involved, not to mention all of the other red tape in place to keep ONE president from having absolute power. So, I guess I'm just not getting the point behind your post today. I'm tired of the feminism bs and I am a strong, independent female in my thirties.

And, the same people who scream for tolerance are the EXACT same people who have no tolerance for opinions that are different from their own. I'm tired of the Christian bashing, the gay bashing, the republican bashing, the democratic bashing, etc., etc...I'm just plain sick of all the bashing. Where is the respect? Where is the acceptance? Where is the tolerance?

Americans are spoiled and we forget how good we actually have it here. So, let's stop the bickering over values and beliefs and actually contribute something positive to our communities in order to make our society a nice place to live for EVERYONE.

I am so going to celebrate when this election is over.

Hallelujah! Amen! GObama!

Thank you for the links - the stories were quite compelling. And thanks again for sharing your thoughts on this, despite the shitstorm in these comments. There are lots of us who don't comment often but love your views :)

I am a woman and I am voting for John Mccain. I love our rights as American's to say what we want and I appreciate and value your thoughts and enthusiasm. However it is becoming less of and opinion and more of an insult. An insult to people that have read your website from its birth and have subsequently helped to pay your bills. Please keep this in mind before you begin to insult us which is the thin line you are beginning to step over.

JO:

I am aware of why Obama didn't vote FOR that bill (because it didn't include an exception to protect the health of the mother.) What I'd like to know is why he didn't vote AGAINST it. He voted "Present." Were he truly passionately symathetic to the women Dooce cited, he would have voted with a resounding NO.

There are various definitions of "late-term" but any leader -like Obama - who professes to support banning late-term abortions in ambiguous terms makes me nervous.

As I said above, Obama is by far the better choice, but he is not fantastic by any means.

His stance on abortion is the main reason I AM voting for McCain and would never consider voting for Obama.

I come from a long line of "inconvenient" pregnancies. One of my daughters got pregnant at 19. She married the father, and they are doing very well two years later. They just bought a house. My grandson is adorable. He's the best thing that ever happened to my daughter.

To my fellow women-I think we can find a better way than to kill our own children in what should be the safest place they could be. I am so sorry that so many of you are so lacking in imagination to even consider alternatives to taking an unborn life.

Every last one of us started with sperm and egg joining. Every last one of us has a right to grow, to develop, to LIVE.

Having a baby is not an easy thing. For some it is much harder than others. But murder is not an answer. And all my middleaged friends who had abortions in the past can and will tell you just how very much they regret what they did.

Don't you dare call McCain a jerk for wanting to protect innocents. I call him a hero.

I'm sorry - you didn't convince me - I'm much more afraid of a man with questionable associations, a record of not voting in the Senate, and if I were Jewish, I would be fearing for my life if Obama wins. I'm not saying that McCain is a great choice, I just don't think in this era of distrust of government, that we need a president with such a questionable past.

Bunny - so McCain is all for protecting innocent fetuses, but doesn't give a shit about the kids dying in Iraq? Just wanted to get that clear, that only AMERICAN fetuses have a right to life.

#170--Then Megan you don't have a full understanding about what pro-life is. It's not just about abortion, believe it or not. But you know, go ahead and re-label as you see fit.

I am a woman and I'm also a woman who would vote for a giant squid named Jose and his army of Portuguese man-o-wars if it meant that I didn't have to listen to Obama tout about change with no real specifics, just saying change over and over again, or people talking about how Sarah Palin's going to be the death of our nation, or abortion rights for another four years after tomorrow.

It seems that issues like abortion and a whole host of other issues will never really be solved and half the country will always disagree. I'm actually almost glad that you, Heather, have the energy to care so much about something you can't change. I mean, hey, you could use your blog to talk about things that matter and motivate people to get involved, but really it seems like you're more interested in alienating any of your readers who might be republicans, or against abortion, or hey, just women who don't agree with you.

I was undecided, I was planning not to vote at all, but now, because I'm so insulted by this, I think I'll vote for McCain.

I've never ever posted anything on any blog - I prefer reading what everybody else has to say and making snarky comments about it to my coworkers :0)- but after seeing that clip, I just can't help myself.

Since when is health something you air quote? I'm 10 weeks pregnant and am so excited for my future bundle of joy...but the thought of some other person making my decision between my life or my baby's? Horrifying...

Sarah #200 I think that might be Dooce's secret plan. I think she does more to help McCain then she realizes

#185-Emily
Please don't speak for me. Thanks.

Safe and legal abortion is already very difficult to get in this country in many states. In countries where abortion is illegal even to protect the health and life of the mother WOMEN DIE. They die both from the dirty, amateur illegal procedures they seek out of desperation, and they die because doctors and hospitals refuse to treat them for the dangerous complications that can occur even in wanted pregnancies. Yes, it can and does happen that a wanted pregnancy can go wrong and a woman is faced with a devastating choice. I know a woman who had to choose if she wanted to carry a dead fetus to term and then give birth, or have the pregnancy terminated (technically an abortion) because of "fetal demise"-her baby had died in the womb. What a hideous "choice" to have to make. Should the government have forced one choice on her rather than another, even if it meant she might die as well?

The fact that there are actually women out there who are eager to vote for McCain makes me TERRIFIED. The fact that there are so many people in this country who would like to shove their religion down everyone else's throats with nary a thought towards the principles and reasons for why this country was founded in the first place scares me. How are we better than the countries who tyrannically squash the freedom of practicing a religion other than the government's religion? We are simply taking the "legal" tactic of changing the laws to suit one religion's needs and ignoring the fact that there are so many others here who may not have the same God. Or any God! But they have "family values" and "morals" on their side so they must be right.

GET YOUR RELIGION AWAY FROM MY BODY AND OUT OF MY MARRIAGE!!

Read the book Protect and Defend. It deals with a teen who is pregnant and her parents are uber conservative and religous and refuse to let her have an abortion dispite the fact that the baby will not live once born and it could possibly harm or kill the mother birthing this child. In the least, leaving her infertile.
Such a good good good book and it shows both sides of the story...
Everyone should read it before the election...!!!!

Also - this blog makes some good points
http://accidentalhousewife1.blogspot.com/2008/09/when-abortion-is-illega...

210--You're right. This is about religion...the Democratic Religion. And The One will tell you how to think. Don't believe for a moment that the Republicans are the only religious ones here. The Democrats just don't have church buildings. Or maybe they do--they are called Courts

Something missing from many people who advocate for McCain's stance. The posts that Heather offered were in reference to ending late-term pregnancies because of dire health concerns.

First, the act of ending a late-term pregnancy makes up something like less than 1% of abortions. I cannot imagine the heartache and compassion it must take for a mother to choose between her life and her unborn son or daughter. However, due to a myriad of complications and unfortunate circumstances, it happens.

This is not about changing your mind or not wanting to care for a special needs child. It is not about being irresponsible or forgetting to make an appointment. Ending a late-term pregnancy because of health reasons means there is no right decision, there is no good decision. Nothing comes out the way it was supposed to.

The circumstance that John McCain so carelessly referred to is enormous, epic and has no good alternative. No mother deserves to have to make the choice, let alone having her decision questioned and mocked by a presidential candidate.

I was never going to vote for John McCain and this is only one of a thousand reasons why I will cast my vote for Barack Obama. Thank you for writing about this Heather - for bringing it to all of our attention.

For the life of me.... I will never understand why Republicans feel it is so necessary to control our wombs. This issue just goes on and on and on. Just let every woman make their own choice and get over it GOP. My womb does not even work anymore, it's broke and I'm glad, but even in it's prime it did not belong to you. I'm just damn glad that I had a choice when I wanted and needed a choice, and I wish the same for my granddaughters and great-granddaughters because women that want an abortion will ALWAYS find a way to seek it out whether legal or not, so let's keep abortions safe.

Heather,

I am not a woman who only thinks in terms of her reproductive capability. I don't walk around thinking via my uterus and wouldn't ever elect or not elect a president just because of this one issue. It always comes back to this one issue for liberals. Why is that? I would really like to know. It's gay rights and abortion. That's all I hear over and over. Are these two issues really THE only ones that make you hate Republicans? Because I'm voting Republican and am not considering them much at all.

I am pro-choice. But I am a mother, so I can see very much how abortion is horrible as an option. I could get into all the things I think about abortion and adoption and all that. But I truly don't see the point.

What I don't feel is that Roe v. Wade is in danger. Every election cycle we hear the liberal left go apeshit over Roe v. Wade being overturned. Every election. Again, I point out that Roe v. Wade has SURVIVED Republican presidents Nixon (president during it's passage), Ford, Reagan (two terms), Bush Sr. and Bush Jr. (two terms). So basically for the 35 years since it's been on the books, there has been a Republican in office 24 of those years. Wow, look...it's still here. Abortion is still legal. Huh...I thought it was in danger from all those horrible Republicans!?

I think if Roe v. Wade can manage to stick around with that much Republican, pro-life "power", it's pretty safe. Just because someone says they are pro-life doesn't mean they will overturn Roe v. Wade. Remember, people in this unraveling democracy still have a right to their views (at least until we become totalitarian). McCain is pro-life. So. Palin is pro-life. So. Neither has really done much in the way of stopping abortion in terms of laws or legislation. So why are you so incredibly scared? Just because they utter the words "right to life"?

All I know is that it's not a Democrat campaign unless the abortion ban hysteria is brought to the table. We must be nearing election day.

I'm not worried. I don't know many women who are. It's semantics. And I'm appalled at how you call out for women to be worried about their reproductive rights but talk about Sarah Palin like she's worse than the shit your dog eats. You should be ashamed.

AMEN to #134, Elissa.

This is not about a single issue - this is not about pro-choice vs. pro-life - this is about a candidate for the most powerful office in the Western world who believes that women do not matter. This is about a man, with a wife and daughters, who makes it clear in word and deed that he thinks women are secondary.

THAT is why ALL WOMEN, regardless of opinion on abortion rights, should not vote for John McCain.

#89, elizabeth - well put. seems every post here lately talks about mccain/palins's evil, but never mentions obama's side of the same issue. where's the open mindedness?

Sue #211, I think you didn't read the Flotsam or A Little Pregnant posts. Either that or you did read them, and didn't pay a jot of attention.

Both those posts highlight the heartbreaking cases of pregnancy that cannot be saved - when a mother's life still can. How is it "protecting life" if one is willing to let the mother die along with the fetus? Re-read the Flotsam post, and try to put yourself in her and her husband's shoes.

I have to vote for John because I'm a woman and he has a vagina on his ticket.

Pro-choice is NOT necessarily anti-life. Pro-choice means one gets to choose for oneself and NOT have someone else choose for them. Pro-lifers want people to have no choice. So, they want to take away our freedom to choose. Isn't that what we fight for? Freedom? You all jump up and down and wave flags and spout off about our FREEDOM, and then you want to take one away. Contradictions abound. God forbid the liberals want to take away one - like private healthcare. Then they get labeled socialists and communists.

Katie, #155.
I never said you were uneducated. You should read my post a little closer. I said we, as a society, need to do a better job of educating our young women and men about the choices they make re: sex and birth control.
I'm guessing you would agree with me that the 14-year-olds who are getting pregnant are not exactly doing so with a wealth of information and support at their fingertips. I'm guessing you would support providing those young women with a form of birth control that is easy for them to use and won't cause any health issues. I'm also guessing that you would support educating these young women about sex before they ever get into a situation where they have to choose. Knowledge is power, and our young women and men have far too little of it. If they had more, there would be fewer decisions to be made with respect to abortion. I am not opposed to abortion across the board, but it should not be used as a form of birth control.
The knee-jerk reactions to McCain - and by the way I have already voted for Obama - on this blog prove that liberals are no more tolerant of opinions that differ from theirs than are the neocons they so openly loathe for doing the same thing. We have to get over this "I'm right and you're dead wrong" attitude, or our country will spiral downhill so fast there won't be any United States by the time our children grow up. It's time to put aside the partisanship and work together. Maybe we can't all get everything we want, but surely there's a way for both parties to work together.

Based on their long and illustrious track record, the right seems to really care about the life of a child until, you know, it's actually born. Apparently, once a kid crosses the "finish line" out of the womb, it's got nothing more to worry about. I'd be a little less suspicious what truly drives a lot of pro-lifers if they followed through on the pro-life attitude once the child left the delivery room.

I'm actually more scared of Obama's plans to "redistribute the wealth". THAT's what will hurt me and my husband. We've worked too hard to get where we are just to have increased taxes reduce my husband's business income for the benefit of those who don't hold down jobs. They didn't work from 9AM until 3AM for three years for my husband's money.

McCain's views on abortion will probably not make much difference, since the house and senate are democratically heavy.

I mainly want the Republicans to win just to hear all the members of the Sky Is Falling Party piss and moan about the world ending. It would be worth it just for that

I hate politics. It makes everyone crazier than rabid bats. Personally, I do not believe either "Obiden" or McCalin" are gods reincarnate, their policies sound, nor do I believe they will do anything for this country regardless of your stance on abortion. I can't say this is one of your more stellar posts Dooce. And NO I didn't read the links in their entirety because I felt they were very biased so if that makes me look stupid so be it...thanks for pointing it out repeatedly.

All I know is that I voted today!!!! Yee Haw!

Obama/Biden '08!!

Ok. There's no middle of the road on this issue. You are either for abortion or you are against it. I for one am against it in any circumstance. I think this is what McCain was trying to get across. That Obama said he was against it in certain circumstances, BUT....

There is no 'but' on this issue. You are either for it or against it. End of story.

Oh yes, things presidential candidates say to hold on to votes...careless words on a topic that has become a battle of principles instead of a thoughtful process on how to deal with a difficult reality.
Unless, of course, you want desperate people to turn to charlatans, get into prison or die. Abortion is not going to go away. Ever. So be practical about it instead of all pro-lifed up and get a frame of rules in place that does justice to the different reasons and non-reasons for abortion.

I just have to put a remark in here concerning the "capitalist fire" mentioned in one of the comments above. Seems to me that fire has burnt up its own oxygen, with its relentless focus on growth and profit no matter what. It might not be bad to modify good old capitalism a bit, before we all go up in smoke...

Wow, I just read #54, Patrick (who I assume is a man). He says:

"There is nothing innocent about "forgetting" to use a condom and winding up pregnant. Rape is another thing. For crying out loud people...live with your choices, mistake or not."

It's exactly this kind of arrogance and ignorance that is fueling John McCain's campaign. Thank you for demonstrating that, Patrick. Did you notice, ladies, how kind Patrick was in throwing us this little bone about how "rape is another thing". Whew, good thing Patrick is here to tell us all that.

So, when women desperatly want to become pregnant and then get the horrifying news that they have cervical cancer and need chemotherapy, I guess becoming pregnant is just a choice they will have to live with, even if it kills them and their baby too, right Patrick?

Or when a TEN year old comes to the hospital to deliver her SECOND child fathered by her uncle, I guess she'd just better own up to her decisions and face the music, eh Patrick?

Thanks for using your platform to speak out for women's rights, Dooce. I'm sure you get lots of hate mail because of it, but when the conversation dies, so do our rights.

UGH Some of these comments are making me want to pull all my hair out. This is not about whether or not abortion should be legal period, it's about abortion being legal if its the ONLY OPTION FOR THE MOTHER TO LIVE! McCain is pretending like this situation never happens.

Dooce, I guess you should have just posted the entire articles here because it's obviously too much effort to click a stupid link.

Thanks for the links - interesting reading, esp. since I missed that part of the debate the other night.

I'm a Christian independent and happen to be pro-life, but I could never be a one-issue voter, and I'll be voting for Obama this year, for his stance on many other issues and just the way he presents himself. The way that he carries himself in these debates, the way that he's able to be diplomatic (when McCain is visibly seething with anger) - that's what I want in a president who will face countless tougher meetings over the course of 4 years.

Anyway, maybe my memory of civics class is really bad, but I have a hard time believing that a case similar to Roe v. Wade will ever again come before the Supreme Court, and if it did, that it would be overturned. Maybe that's naive, but I don't understand that line of thinking from the pro-life camp, that McCain (or another republican candidate = overturning RvW). And if it were to be over-turned, wouldn't the law then revert back to each state anyway?

And honestly, it's been said above, but I believe overturning it, regardless of the reasons, would create a public health disaster in this country. It would certainly not stop all abortions from happening, and it would make those that happened unsafe. I envision something similar to Prohibition, in that society will not accept the repealing of a law like that.

Again, I'm pro-life in the sense that I do believe that life begins at conception, but I don't really believe that means I should use political means to dictate others' actions in regards to abortion. I wish pro-lifers could focus more energy on, say, adoption rather than to believing that some political figure will someday be a cure-all for all their beliefs. There are upwards of 2 million orphans worldwide, and I'd love it if we could focus on making adoption easier and cheaper - that we would work on building a 'compassionate civil society' - I'm not sure that we have one now.

"I don't like the idea of abortion, but you cannot legislate morality."

It really bugs me when people say this. Remind me again why murder is illegal...

Sue in 231, see #178

All Heather cares about is pageviews. Period. Most of us know that but stay tuned for the genuine posts.

Oh, and etsy. She cares about etsy.

Oh, and talking about style instead of actually having some of her own.

I hope not, Sarah, you're educating my ass that's for sure.

Comment 33 made my mouth drop.

Comment 101 made me roll my eyes. So do you consider the pill killing a baby then?

I find it ironic that a woman would choose her own life over her child's during pregnancy/at birth in a situation where only one could be saved... and yet if she were standing in a bank with her toddler during a stand up, you would never see her hold the child up in front of her to catch a bullet headed in her direction, or maybe you would. :(

Amy J - #220 - you are completely correct - anyone making a stink out of this issue - one that is on the back burner for politicians, is grasping at straws for something to argue over.

I am pro-choice. I am not worried about losing this choice. There are many MORE important issues we should all be focused on. I am an educated woman scared of all those NOT voting for McCain. Obama will probably make most of us poorer, which should be a concern. He does speak smoothly, I will admit, but if you listen carefully, he doesn't say that much. He has general ideas, yet few detailed plans. Why aren't the Obama fans noticing this?

Oh and comment 147 made me laugh. How fucking stupid.

#206: Really? Just here for the political posts? Never read the other posts? The Leta letters? The Chuck pics? Okay then. Sorry. And my post said nothing that she shouldn't post her beliefs. Just that dooce responded something earlier that I felt belittled me as to why I come to her site...which is because I like her humor.

So many angry haters here. Yikes.

McCain is a misogynist. In addition to the choice issue discussed here, scroll down to #1 on this page:

http://www.eyesonobama.com/blog/content/id_20167/title_McCains-History-o...

I am a woman, and I WAS for McCain until I started watching him become more and more unstable in the debates. He looked constipated, angry, arrogant, and had no damn manners whatsoever. Obama handled everything he threw at him with such class.

And I thought to myself, McCain is becoming bat-shit crazier every day. SCARY. Nope, not someone I want in the White House. I'll take someone who seems sane, even if he is a liberal. (Who could possibly do worse than Bush anyway?)

As for my stance on abortion, I am now a pro-lifer who believes in pro-choice rights after having had an abortion. It took going through an abortion for me to see the wrong in it. But would I ever stand and judge a woman for choosing that? Hell no. Not when I had the chance to choose my reproductive future and took it - even to my later regret. I would be a hypocrite otherwise.

The government has no business being in my body's business.

I do think that the government needs to make birth control AVAILABLE/AFFORDABLE, even for middle class folks with insurance. I have insurance, I make 50K a year, and I pay $35 a month so that I don't accidentally get pregnant. When there are so many other bills to pay, I could really use a savings in that area. And, if conservatives are so determined to get rid of abortions or lower their occurance, they would give women more affordable options in preventing pregnancy in the first place. Seems like an idea to me ... I don't know why no one is serious in pursuing it, especially when the latest stats show that the abortion rate is rising most for 20-somethings, NOT teens.

Here's where I get frustrated concerning the the abortion argument - Neither side will ever win for the simple fact that the two sides aren't even arguing about the same issue and therefore everyone loses. On the surface it seems to be the same issue - abortion - but it's not at all. One side is fighting for women's rights and the other side is fighting for the rights of babies. All of the billions of dollars spent and protest marches marched and energy expended...for an issue where the two sides aren't even arguing about the same thing. So frustrating...

187. RJ -- Lies? Maybe you should calm yourself down, take your xanax, sweetie, and research the person you're supporting.

FACTS --
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYRpIf2F9NA

http://toddmclauchlin.blogspot.com/2008/07/obama-supports-live-birth-abo...

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=51121

http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/warner-todd-huston/2008/08/13/obama-lie...

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=27992

http://www.israpundit.com/2008/?p=2597

That should start you off to research some FACTS to see who you're really voting for.

I don't support outlawing abortions, but neither do I support women being able to use abortion as a form of birth control. It's a difficult issue for me, personally. But I know that I cannot stomach voting for a man who is blind to the horrors his actions can cause.

Dooce, those ARE wonderful stories from people's lives.

Here's the sad part: no one gets to read the personal stories from the aborted babies.

I am looking forward to election day... hopefully the political blogging will stop and you'll get back to what you do best.

BTW Heather, I get all giddy when you post on politics. Just love it ;)

kimmyk - McCain is very obviously for abortion in the case of incest and rape. Your hypothetical 12 year old falls into both of those categories.

Shut up.

Signed, an Obama supporter.

#33: In case you haven't noticed, every other developed nation in the entire planet has health care for all its citizens - all but the U.S. I don't care if it's not explicitly spelled out in the Constitution, I think the fact that everybody else understands the importance of basic health care for citizens, and the responsibility of the gov't to make sure this is provided while the U.S. doesn't shows a real lack of principle.

I don't believe in a big government, but I think if a country is going to have one govern its people, health care should be a primary right it bestows on its citizens.

And please don't give me American exceptionalism rhetoric in response... this country will suffer if it doesn't learn lessons from those around it. Heaven knows the last 8 years have been a completely disdain for everyone else - look where that's gotten us.

I have a problem with abortion being a topic that women are actually considering when choosing a presidential candidate. As mentioned above there are more important issues...but not to mention that abortion is something in our country that will never be changed. Lets remember how the legislative system works...it takes majority house and senate to make a bill pass into law...not just the president.

It kills me, I mean absolutely kills me, that abortion is still a hot button issue in this country when it's been legal for such a long time. I wish politicians would just let it go and concentrate on the real issues like universal health care, how to get the economy back on track and how in the hell we are going to end this pointless war and bring our soldier home so they can be with their families. Abortion is seriously the least of our worries right now.

Woman, relax. No one is going to end abortion because it is a plot by men anyway. We love it. It absolves us of all responsibility. No man will ever allow it to be taken away from us. Our greatest fear is that women will start thinking for themselves about this and realize how they are being used.

Seriously people. McCain is not going to overturn Roe v. Wade. There are so many other fish to fry in the White House. Even if he does become president, he won't make it his mission to piss off all the liberal pro-choice citizens in America and attempt to overturn it. Besides, it's my understanding that he and Palin would rather let the states vote on this issue. Remember his personal opinions matter as much as the staunch liberal!

Give the man a little more respect. He was a POW for FIVE FREAKIN' YEARS!!! So Step Off! He has been so hammered by the media and has taken it so graciously. OH, that's right, he fought for your right to verbally disrespect him and any other service person in America! Where's your compassion?

You wanna know what scares the shit out of me? People like kimmyk who know nothing about the candidates or their platforms, and yet insist on making toxic and false accusations.

274- Uh, a person's blog is fact? *snort*

They are very eloquently worded posts but I'm still voting Republican.....in my eyes, he is the lesser of two evils. There is something about Obama that I can't quite put my finger on, something about him and his politics that just doesn't sit right with me.

And I don't believe in basing your political choices on the issue of abortion...I don't think that is a presidential issue.

But I will say that I consider myself pro-life in the sense that I believe that abortion is murder, that life and a soul begins at conception. But I'm not going to harass women that have had one or throw bombs at an abortion clinic. I do think it's disturbing when women see it as a form of birth control.....I can't tell you how many women I have met that I have had 2 or more abortions because they can't seem to understand how babies are made or how to prevent it.

Kate, we're already socialists here in the US.

Didn't you hear? The US Government just bought into the banks. It's called Nationalization.

Like it or not, we're already there. And that was under George W. Bush, a Republican.

And here, with the title and all, I thought you were implying how insulted women all over America should be at his choice of running mate.

I thought Obama's answer to the abortion question was as perfect as any non-uterus-owning person's could be. However, I'd like to make McCain a woman with a big, fat uterus full of a child conceived by incest, to see if he would answer differently.

Such a volatile subject...and your post was perfect.